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who's got a weber on a sierra

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moonhopper

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Location: Napier

Post Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:16 pm

i have been reading this tread with great interest and am very keen to try the 4k carb, is there anything i have to do to it, its going onto a 1300 with a electronic supercharger. cheers
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MightyMouse

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Post Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Whats an "electronic supercharger" - please tell me its not something like this


Image
( usual disclaimers )

It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
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moonhopper

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Location: Napier

Post Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:01 am

no i'm using a E-Ram that has its own hi flow filter built in. prob same principal though, http://www.electricsupercharger.com/ follow this link if you wish. cheers
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MightyMouse

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Post Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:43 am

IMO put the money towards a real turbo or supercharger, sure you will have to wait and save but you will get real results.
( usual disclaimers )

It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
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grimbo

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Post Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:48 am

so basically its a fancy hi clone
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MightyMouse

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Post Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:48 pm

In terms of jive - a hi clone work alike. Any gain is accidental or because the revised air intake flows better.

Technically they are powered by a high speed motor that drives the "compressor" wheel which supposedly produces "boost". As they aren't positive displacement and don't have a diffuser like a turbocharger the "theory" of operation is very suspect.

Another very telling problem is that it takes real power ( many kW ) to drive any compressor that does the job - not a few watts as possible with a small electric motor. Don't get me wrong - there are electric superchargers ( Bosch ) but they use BIG motors and are really only designed for low pressure ratio's - often in combination with another mechanical blower / turbo.

Unfortunately many people are convinced that because they have spent their hard earned money - their car DEFINITELY goes faster, but wouldn't put it on a dyno as they just KNOW it works. And of course you can tell everyone your rigs "supercharged"

About as credible as using an air ram to produce boost on a road car. :rofl:
( usual disclaimers )

It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
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NIK

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Post Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:18 am

I got my 38DGAS delivered the other day :cool:
It looks like its never been opened up its in top condition for a carb built 20 to 30 years ago!
Only downfall it had a ramflow on top and the sponge had fallen apart and dropped all through the carb, oh well a good clean will fix that.
Just have to get some idle jets for it then I,ll put it on and see how it goes.

On the 32/36 I took the zook out on the weekend to check the burn on the plugs my cuurent jetting is,
prim sec
idle 50 55 I think?
main 140 140
air 175 170
e tubes f50 f50
aux 3.5 4.5
Now the primary showed a very clean burn maybe a little white (Ive seen them worse)
Secondary showed very clean with slight brown specks.
With the secondary I held it at 4500rpm in 4th before swithching off the ignition and coasting to a stop, about a metre before a stopped I took my foot off the accelerator and it blew air back through the carb, not a backfire though.
This may have somthing to do with the brown specks (not a true reading?)
On long staights at WOT it runs great but at WOT on hills it pings a little, Ive rechecked the timing several times and its at factory specs of 8 dbtdc.
Any thoughts?
BTW with the gearing I have now I hardly use the secondaries and its very suprising how economical it is without them.
Nik
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Sarge

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Location: Ohio, Illinois USA

Post Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:46 pm

Drop the secondary air down to 165 , pinging is a very bad thing for rods and pistons .

Optimal fuel mileage is gotten with the primary at about 1/2 open, which should be around 1/3 pedal on the Zuk . It should always at least run on the primary , even on hills if everything is right with the engine . Secondary is only for full power when needed really .

The 38 will be much different , very high torque down low and will cruise with much less throttle input . The trick is to get the jetting correct and as lean as possible in the transitions, don't be in a big hurry to use large idle jets or mileage will suffer a lot . You want it to cruise in the low end of the mains and jet the engine at that point .
Sarge
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NIK

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Post Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:19 pm

Thanks Sarge I was thinking I should drop the secondary air but with the colour of the plugs I thought it might be right.
How do I do the burn test with the 38 what throttle position do I use?
Ive got the jetting you recommended just have to get some 65 idles the last one I bought was a drilled out one so Im going to get 2 correct ones this time.
Nik
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Sarge

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Post Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:04 pm

Jetting is the same , just a good normal highway cruise speed, rpm's around 4,000 or so with a normal load against the engine . Key is to use the smallest idle jets you can get away with , as long as it doesn't have a flat spot just off-idle it's good . Response should be fairly crisp and quick.
Sarge
Grab that bar, this is gonna hurt ....

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Weber tech/parts/service
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NIK

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Post Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:23 am

Thanks I,ll pick up some jets through the week and see how I go.
In the toyota thread you talked about installing a brake check valve between the pvc valve and air filter, do you do this on zuks as well? Im getting a bit of oil blow by in the filter any cure for this (besides a rebuild).
While I was putting the 38 back together last night I noticed somthing is stuck in the top of the pump delivery valve above the ball bearing. It looks as though someone has snapped somthing off in there but not sure as the one in my 32/36 is open on top.
Nik
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Sarge

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Location: Ohio, Illinois USA

Post Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:42 am

We used to do that on Zuks but the only real cure is to rebuild it if you have that much blowby . The rings on these engines are pretty sensitive to carbon buildup .

If you are referring to the screw that holds the pump nozzle the center of it has a lead plug to hold the check ball inside and seal it .
Sarge
Grab that bar, this is gonna hurt ....

Midwest Performance Parts
Weber tech/parts/service
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NIK

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Post Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:17 pm

Thanks, I checked it against the one in my 32/36 and it was the same :oops: .
I fitted the 38 but havnt got it running properly yet. I suspect the base gasket is leaking it wont idle under about 800rpm even then its rough. When I cover either side of the choke horn the revs go way up before dropping again.
Ive got 50 idle jets atm as that was the only size I head 2 of. It also looks like I could remove alot more from the intake if I decide the 38 is for me.
Nik
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NIK

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Post Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:36 pm

Ive had a play with the 38 but not sure if Im headed in the right direction,
I started with 50 idle jets but I had to screw the mix 1 3/4 - 2 turns out to get a smooth idle without the idle screw in to keep the revs up.
Ive read 3/4 - 1 turn is the goal any more and the idle jet has to go up. So I up it to 55 but still had to turn the mix 1 3/4 out and it wouldnt idle down even with the idle screw all the way out. I took it for a test run and even though its not tuned properly yet its scary how responsive it is :cool: . It had a stumble off idle and when decelerating it popped out the exhuast so I up the idle to 60.
I still had to wind the mix out 1 3/4 and it still wouldnt idle under 1000rpm and the stumble off idle was still present.
Im thinking once this is sorted it will be a ball though MUCH more responsive than the 32/36 down low!
Nik
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NIK

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Post Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:06 pm

I played some more with the 38 today making sure all the gaskets wernt sucking air or the throttle shafts, all seems good. I wound the mix screw back to 1 turn and the revs dropped to 600rpm with no apparent change to idle quality. Still had a stumble off idle though. Still bigger idles??
Also noticed the inner idle mix was way more responsive to adjustment than the outer 1 this is with the bowl to the rear. Do you think this could be because I havnt taken enough out of the manifold and adapter?
Nik
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Sarge

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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:53 am

Location: Ohio, Illinois USA

Post Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:34 am

The valve cover (primary) side idle mix screw will always be more sensitive since it's closer to the main runners by about 1/4" . Most Zuks need a 65 idle , sometimes clear up to 70's . Throttle response should be crisp and nearly violent in lower gears . If it's lacking at an area just above the off-idle position you may have to up the main jets to a 142-145 range and increase the air to 180-185 .

Just be very careful stabbing it in low gear, it will go past redline very quickly . I've had several blow rods out with that carb .
Sarge
Grab that bar, this is gonna hurt ....

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NIK

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:36 am

No worries I kept an eye on the tacho!
Spoke to a carb shop today trying to get 65 idles and he gave me this speech about it shouldnt need more than 45 idles and somthing about cant mix enough air?
What changes in different engines to affect idle jet changes is it more than just volume of air?
He said if I need idles that big I must have an air leak that is leaning it out hence bigger jets. He almost had me convinced till I remembered you saying about zuks using idles up around 65.
Thanks Nik
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JrZook

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Post Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:37 pm

Sarge wrote:The valve cover (primary) side idle mix screw will always be more sensitive since it's closer to the main runners by about 1/4" . Most Zuks need a 65 idle , sometimes clear up to 70's . Throttle response should be crisp and nearly violent in lower gears . If it's lacking at an area just above the off-idle position you may have to up the main jets to a 142-145 range and increase the air to 180-185 .

Just be very careful stabbing it in low gear, it will go past redline very quickly . I've had several blow rods out with that carb .
Sarge


The stumble off idle is wat i had with the 32/36. No jet changes would fix it. Ended up tracing it down to the transition port that brings the main circuit in. I removed a welsh plug from the side of the carb and re-drilled another one so it sat slightly above the butterfly when it was closed. Works great.

Cheers Dan
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NIK

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:21 pm

Rang around trying to get some 65 idles know one has any that big and it will be about 3 week wait to get them :x I can get them drilled out to 65 but in the 32/36 vs 38 thread it advises against it.
Nik
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NIK

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:53 pm

Checked my pcv valve today it was blocked. Gave it a good clean now it flows full into intake and restricted out. Is this right or should it seal one way?
Nik
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built4thrashing

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:38 pm

hey nic. do a scavenge of the wreckers. the jets in many euro cars with webers are the same and i think even the XE/EF use 65 idle jets.

i went on a pinch-a-part scavenge of my local wreckers and came away with a huge stash of different jet sizes.

cheap solution to ya dramas
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Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
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brad-chevlux

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Location: townsville

Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:52 pm

we've come up with a different solution to the up hill down hill floading problem with the webers.
can't go into to it to much yet as we are still sorting the finner details befor we build and fit the carb.
It's not a new thing but it's something i've not yet seen done to a weber on a zook.
we should be able to fit the carb the 'right' way around (well you know what i mean) and almost be able to sit the car on it's tailgate and still have the car running as if it were on all four wheels.

be about 4 or 5 months till it gets real testing off road, as i have to wait for the owner to be back in the country. Though it should be on the car and running in the work shop with in the next 2 months or so.
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JrZook

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Post Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:02 am

I still am a strong believer that gravity is the cause of the main stalling issues up/down large inclines with the design of this carb. Simply put, when the fuel bowl is set up either to the front or rear of the zuk, the gravity will either force feed or starve the main jets of fuel. This can be shown on a carb off the engine. Fill the fuel bowl with fuel and angle the carb so the bowl is the highest part. Fuel will start to find its way through the main jets and enter through the auxiliary venturi. Baffles may slow down the effect, but it would be interesting how the weber performs 90 degrees to the standard mounting pattern ie fuel bowl on the side, such as the standard carb.

My cent worth.
Cheers Dan
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NIK

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Post Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:21 am

Boner was looking into this you can buy an adapter to mount it sideways on the manifold. Not sure it would help though as you would still have the same issues just sideways instead of up and down.
I might try the wreckers for some jets,
Btw there is currently 2 38 webers on ebay they are listed as webers for jeeps if anyone is interested, still cheap atm.
Nik
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JrZook

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Post Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:05 pm

NIK wrote:Boner was looking into this you can buy an adapter to mount it sideways on the manifold. Not sure it would help though as you would still have the same issues just sideways instead of up and down.
I might try the wreckers for some jets,
Btw there is currently 2 38 webers on ebay they are listed as webers for jeeps if anyone is interested, still cheap atm.
Nik


Really? There is an adapter? Any more info. I dont know about you guys, but out on most of my trips i find im doing alot steeper inlines and declines as opposed to sideslopes. I think you'd be near side slope rolling status when the weber just starts having its fuel problems
Cheers Dan
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NIK

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Post Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:53 pm

Tried the wreckers today forgot to take in my screwdriver :oops: and they wouldnt sell jets seperatley.
I think the sideways adapter was for hill climb guys ask at your local speed shop, or Imay have seen it on redlines website?
I hear what your saying but mines getting pretty good up and down now.
Set it up with the restricted bypass, set the float height with 2-3mm drop, install breather and a off switch for fuel pump on steepp down hills is a big help.
Nik
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St Jimmy

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Post Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:44 am

JrZook wrote:
NIK wrote:Boner was looking into this you can buy an adapter to mount it sideways on the manifold. Not sure it would help though as you would still have the same issues just sideways instead of up and down.
I might try the wreckers for some jets,
Btw there is currently 2 38 webers on ebay they are listed as webers for jeeps if anyone is interested, still cheap atm.
Nik


Really? There is an adapter? Any more info. I dont know about you guys, but out on most of my trips i find im doing alot steeper inlines and declines as opposed to sideslopes. I think you'd be near side slope rolling status when the weber just starts having its fuel problems
Cheers Dan
The adaptor was to big and i tryed to get one undrilled but redline would not sell me one.The mounting holes were in the wrong place :x but it would have turned it so the bowl was facing the firewall you could try redline to see if they will let you have a undrilled one.Boner
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JrZook

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Post Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:27 pm

boner59 wrote:
JrZook wrote:
NIK wrote:Boner was looking into this you can buy an adapter to mount it sideways on the manifold. Not sure it would help though as you would still have the same issues just sideways instead of up and down.
I might try the wreckers for some jets,
Btw there is currently 2 38 webers on ebay they are listed as webers for jeeps if anyone is interested, still cheap atm.
Nik


Really? There is an adapter? Any more info. I dont know about you guys, but out on most of my trips i find im doing alot steeper inlines and declines as opposed to sideslopes. I think you'd be near side slope rolling status when the weber just starts having its fuel problems
Cheers Dan
The adaptor was to big and i tryed to get one undrilled but redline would not sell me one.The mounting holes were in the wrong place :x but it would have turned it so the bowl was facing the firewall you could try redline to see if they will let you have a undrilled one.Boner


Do you have a link on it or something?
Sounds intresting,
Cheers Dan
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St Jimmy

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Van-tastic!

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Post Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:56 pm

I thinking of buying another adaptor and getting some one to make me one ;) . boner
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NIK

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Post Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:11 pm

Is there enough meat to port out the manifold the other way??
I think it will end up like a guy I know with a corolla carb floods on one side but not the other.
In slow technical stuff mines not a problem at all, just on dirt hills when you need momentum I get a slight stutter as the jets come out of the fuel then the pump catches up.
Nik
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